Talk:Arthur Schopenhauer

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Disparaging to Germans

In the Politics section it reads: He wrote many disparaging remarks about Germany and the Germans. A typical example is, "For a German it is even good to have somewhat lengthy words in his mouth, for he thinks slowly, and they give him time to reflect."

As much as I like this quote, to me it doesn't convincing demonstrate his disdain. Is saying Germans think slowly necessarily an insult, and not simply an observation? The same is said of Tibetans by Tibetans, of whom many consider the familiar westerner's 'butterfly mind' childish and dangerously unstable. Aero13792468 (talk) 01:05, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Schopenhauer and antisemitism

Hello,

First time here. I'm simply curious to find out why there is no mention anywhere in the article about Schopenhauer's antisemitism and his influence on Hitler. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Borowczyk76 (talk • contribs) 20:08, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

Why don't you enlighten us?Lestrade (talk) 02:31, 8 May 2011 (UTC)Lestrade

Forget about it. Sorry, this has been addressed elsewhere. I wasn't able to find the original thread until now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Borowczyk76 (talk • contribs) 08:25, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Schopenhauer hurt himself by making several nasty comments about Jews. After what happened in his country 70 years ago, the comments are difficult to dismiss. One of Schopenhauer's closest and most respected friends was the Jewish physician Dr. David Ascher.

Hitler, along with thousands of other Germans, read Schopenhauer. Hitler wasn't influenced by Schopenhauer's morality of compassion or his doctrine of the renunciation of the will.Lestrade (talk) 12:16, 12 May 2011 (UTC)Lestrade

Schopenhauer and his Mother

Will Durant's "The Story of Philosophy" pointed out that Schopenhauer's mother attempted to kill him by throwing him down the stairs. He survived and bitterly informed her that the world would know her but only through him. The apparent reason for why this woman hated her son so much is because she had literary pretensions and saw her son as a rival after Goethe declared that the son would one day be a great man. I think we can plainly see the reason for Schopenhauer's misogyny: he had experienced a deep hatred from his mother. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.131.33.222 (talk) 06:07, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

It's very bold to claim to know what is hidden in another person's mind. The mother's motivation may not even have been known to her. If Durant was correct, then the incident provides a neat counter to the incident between Schopenhauer and Frau Marquet.Lestrade (talk) 17:45, 13 June 2011 (UTC)Lestrade

Durant made an inference but I do think it is a very logical and reasonable one. If a man has not experienced love from his Mother and instead experienced her hatred, that is bound to mark him - not just his psyche but also how other people view him. I would not say that the claim is "bold". It seems quite reasonable, don't you think? At any rate, I think it worth citing and quoting Will Durant if for no other reason that to provide information. As to what happened concerning Frau Marquet, that is a different story. Personally, I suspect Marquet's claims to be very overblown. 12.169.97.130 (talk) 21:16, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

She might have instigated the incident in order to sue for personal injury. It could have been the 19th century equivalent of slipping in the supermarket in order to file a suit. Schopenhauer's mother expressed love and concern in her letters to him. However, he depressed her with his pessimism. She wanted to enjoy her life. Arthur Grinch might have been hard to support at times. I doubt that she committed assault and battery on him, though.Lestrade (talk) 01:27, 15 June 2011 (UTC)Lestrade

As I said, there is the Will Durant reference for Schopenhauer's mother attempting murder. Enjoy the read. It's a very good book . As for Marquet, there were unscrupulous people back then as now. You decide. Arthur was a pessimist but he was also sincere. I'm a fan. There is a claim that he had dinner at the "Englisher Hof" where he entertained the same ritual: he would take out a gold coin and place it on the table only to recover the gold coin before leaving. An indignant waiter lusting the coin for himself asked for the significance of this ritual. Arthur answered that it was the silent outcome of a wager he made with himself: he would leave the gold coin in the poor box if the gentlemen at that inn would speak of anything else but horses, dogs or women. Now that's a man with charm! :-) Get the Durant book. It's an enjoyable read! 24.4.216.50 (talk) 22:51, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

In Durant's The Story of Philosophy, Chapter VII, Section II, he wrote, "…the mother pushed her son and rival down the stairs…." Durant then claimed that Schopenhauer was "doomed to pessimism" because "a man who has not known a mother's love—and worse, has known a mother's hatred—has no cause to be infatuated with the world." Schopenhauer's condition was probably more complex than that, but I speculate that Durant's diagnosis was most likely very close to the truth. However, I am skeptical that she pushed him down the stairs. In Wikipedia, though, we are supposed to record what appears in print, not our own personal opinions.Lestrade (talk) 01:43, 16 June 2011 (UTC)Lestrade

I've read all the core, academic biographies—Safranski, Copleston, Magee, et. al.—and nowhere is this incident mentioned. Perhaps Durant, who writes popular histories, is mixing up the Marquet incident with S's mother. In any event, I'd like to see a second, confirming reference before putting it in the article. ~ Alcmaeonid (talk) 01:54, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

As far as I know, Will Durant is the only person who ever claimed that Johanna Schopenhauer pushed her son, Arthur, down the stairs. His Story of Philosophy is a valuable book, but he might have gone too far when he made this allegation.Lestrade (talk) 12:38, 16 June 2011 (UTC)Lestrade

I would check the references in Durant's book. His book is credible and well-known. I doubt he would invent such a fact.67.161.10.16 (talk) 16:46, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Durant gives no reference for his statement. However, he often cites William Wallace's Life of Schopenhauer.Lestrade (talk) 18:41, 16 June 2011 (UTC)Lestrade

Well i'm definitely curious now. Anyone have access to that book? I read U. of Toronto library as a possible source. Does anyone have access to that book?24.4.216.50 (talk) 17:02, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Actually Renee Safier composed the song "Schopenhauer's Blues" with lyrics:

No friend in the world in that infinity between one and none

Lookin' over the chip on his shoulder

Arthur beware of your mom!

She sent you tumblin' down the stairs

I have a pdf of Wallace's book and did searches on "stairs" & "mother" and found nothing vis-a-vis the alleged incident. As you probably can guess, song lyrics are not acceptable sources. ~ Alcmaeonid (talk) 20:24, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

On page 79, Wallace records information on the last days of Schopenhauer's residence with his mother. There is no mention of stairs. Durant seems to have fabricated the event.Lestrade (talk) 15:43, 18 June 2011 (UTC)Lestrade

A google search on Schopenhauer + mother + stairs does produce some sites which mention his Mother pushing him down the stairs. E.g. [1] Is it possible that Durant's book is the source of all this "common knowledge"? 67.161.11.171 (talk) 07:02, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it is possible. It is even probable. Durant's book was in its 8th edition in 1962, and there were later editions afterward. Many people read the book.Lestrade (talk) 22:14, 19 June 2011 (UTC)Lestrade

It has hard to imagine that someone as careful and as conscientious as Will Durant could have made such a mistake. He wasn't really even that much of a fan of Schopenhauer.67.161.11.171 (talk) 02:54, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Durant considered S. to be a major philosopher of great importance, as is evident by the long section on S. in his history. We don't know Durant's inner thoughts and motives. We only know what he wrote. It seems very probable that he made a mistake when he wrote that Johanna pushed her son, Arthur, down the stairs.Lestrade (talk) 14:49, 11 July 2011 (UTC)Lestrade

He wrote not only a chapter but an entire book: A Guide to Schopenhauer, Girard, Kansas: The Haldeman-Julius Company, 1924. The critical question remains: why is this incident never mentioned in any of the core biographies or the extensive array of academic articles? I know its hard to believe that Durant could have made such a crucial error but without a second supporting citation it cannot go into the article. Remember Durant wrote popular histories, not subject to the kind of scrutiny the academics were given. ~ Alcmaeonid (talk) 15:22, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Incomplete presentation of influence

The article suggests that Wittgenstein was only influenced by Schopenhauer’s epistemology. This neglects the influence that Schopenhauer’s ethics had on Wittgenstein. Wittgenstein’s behavior for most of his adult life was affected by Schopenhauer’s discussions of virtue, sainthood, morality, and selflessness.Lestrade (talk) 23:20, 11 April 2012 (UTC)Lestrade

Go ahead and add in some cited material. Fix the problem. ~ Alcmaeonid (talk) 13:49, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Quotation

Many websites mention the following as Schopenhauer quotes. Does anyone have attributions/sources?

A man's delight in looking forward to and hoping for some particular satisfaction is a part of the pleasure flowing out of it, enjoyed in advance. But this is afterward deducted, for the more we look forward to anything the less we enjoy it when it comes.

Great men are like eagles, and build their nest on some lofty solitude.
Charlesjsharp (talk) 12:57, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Almost every sentence that he wrote is quotable.Lestrade (talk) 11:42, 1 May 2012 (UTC)Lestrade