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icon To-do list for Wikipedia:WikiProject Ice Hockey: edit · history · watch · refresh · Updated 2024-08-24

WikiProject Ice Hockey was featured in a WikiProject Report in the Signpost on 3 January 2009.
WikiProject Ice Hockey was featured in a WikiProject Report in the Signpost on 1 November 2010.



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Wondering whether Gymrat16 is back as an anonymous editor

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I know some of you encountered the nastiness involving Gymrat16 this summer that led to his eventual ban. First we had this IP editor who showed up on Friday, jumped right into hockey-related articles, and got into a back-and-forth with @Sbaio: over the inclusion (or lack thereof) of sources for certain material, which was an issue Gymrat16 used to raise from time to time. I note, as well, that Gymrat regularly attacked Sbaio, which is why I've pinged the latter user here. I reverted one of that IP user's edits to the Alex Ovechkin article on the basis that the edit made the paragraph in question just plain too long and hard to read. So then, last night, a different new IP editor showed up and reverted my edit with an edit summary reading thus: "if you’re complaining about reading a paragraph then that is your problem no one else’s since no one else is complaining and it isn’t even that long. Just the regular season in one since lots happened in it while another is for the playoffs. So meet half way as compromise." That's a sure sign in my mind that the two IP editors are the same person. So that edit was at 21:05 last night. Perhaps coincidentally (though I doubt it), at 19:22 last night (i.e., about an hour 45 minutes earlier), Gymrat16 posted an unblock request on his talk page. What I'm wondering is whether those of you who have dealt directly with him more recently than I have think there's enough here to perhaps merit opening a sockpuppet investigation. 1995hoo (talk) 13:50, 29 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The geolocation would help reveal it. @Sbaio, you may have the several IPs from way back to cross-analyze them. I remember Gymrat being pretty upset about being labeled a sock back then. Both IPs above geolocate to different locations though, so it's important to know which one could be our perpetrator. Conyo14 (talk) 14:01, 29 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
If you think it's worth opening a sockpuppet investigation, I can do so (might not be until tomorrow, however) and you can then post a comment about it. I definitely remember how furious Gymrat was about being linked to Moka Mo as a sockpuppet; the administrators overturned that ban based on evidence he provided that they found convincing. This time around would be a little different in that the IP editors are potential socks of Gymrat16 himself, rather than Gymrat allegedly acting as someone else's sock. 1995hoo (talk) 14:04, 29 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The IPs are most likely Gymrat16. I looked through my talk page and all of the IPs below come from Michigan:
In addition, the last two IPs come from same range and same location (Novi, Michigan) like 2601:40D:8202:ECA0:B519:551F:AA8C:E939 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) that was used in Ovechkin's page. Therefore, it is obvious that Gymrat16 is evading his block. – sbaio 15:57, 29 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Do you know whether the proper avenue for dealing with that is via the sockpuppet investigation page, or is ANI or some other forum more appropriate? 1995hoo (talk) 16:37, 29 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
SPI is the best venue. Flibirigit (talk) 16:51, 29 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I'll try to get to it tomorrow or, more likely, Wednesday. Just expecting that my real job will entail a busy afternoon and a busy day tomorrow. 1995hoo (talk) 17:01, 29 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Ultimately I had some free time this afternoon, so I've posted it. The link is here, should any of you wish to comment. 1995hoo (talk) 19:01, 29 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The case is well written and lays the foundation for a long-term abuse page if needed. Cheers. Flibirigit (talk) 21:10, 29 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. An administrator blocked the user with the IP address ending in -E939, which was the most recently active of them, after concluding that 76.79.204.130 is not likely the same person because of the geolocation for that one being in California while the others were all from Michigan. Guess we'll see what the next IP address is. I tend to think the one in California is also Gymrat, perhaps via location-spoofing or similar, but what can you do. 1995hoo (talk) 12:38, 30 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I uncovered multiple IPs that Gymrat16 recently used to evade his block (all of them point to Michigan):

And I suspect there are more. Gymrat16's requests to unblock him will not help as he keeps evading the block. – sbaio 06:12, 11 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Sbaio: The 2601 ones in that batch are in the same /64 range so they can be bundled for easier tracking and reporting like so: 2601:40D:8202:ECA0:0:0:0:0/64 (talk · contribs · WHOIS). One can always add "/64" to the contribs search of an IPv6 address to pull up the range. Left guide (talk) 07:46, 11 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
One can always add "/64" to the contribs search of an IPv6 address to pull up the range. – I know this, but not used it as I wanted to list exact IPs. – sbaio 07:55, 11 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

He is back as 2600:1007:0:0:0:0:0:0/32 (talk · contribs · WHOIS). – sbaio 16:44, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps it's time to report all this, to WP:AN. GoodDay (talk) 16:46, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The admin boards will typically punt these matters to SPI. I've filed a new SPI there while pinging admin asilvering from the last report. Thanks for flagging sbaio. Left guide (talk) 17:09, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I see he was editing his talk page again today. It’s somewhat surprising the admins haven’t revoked his talk page access, but I suppose there’s no real harm in letting him yell into the wind, as it were. I notice how the timing of this latest round of logged-in edits came right after the latest round of blocks, much as one of the anonymous edits that prompted me to open the initial SPI on September 29 came right around the same time when he posted an unlock request. It’s simply too striking to be a coincidence. 1995hoo (talk) 21:32, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Biography intros and MOS:SOB

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@Nikkimaria recently pointed out at David Reinbacher and a couple other articles that our current standard for introductions in biographies has two links in a row, e.g. "an Austrian professional ice hockey defenceman for the Montreal Canadiens," and that MOS:SEAOFBLUE potentially advises against this, stating "when possible, do not place links next to each other that appear to be a single link." It seems ambiguous if this is what the MOS is talking about so I'd like some other opinions. I personally like the current wording, so if it is a MOS problem I would rather remove the link from 'ice hockey' than change anything else. Wheatzilopochtli (talk) 22:41, 30 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Does both the sport and position need to be linked in the introduction? One or the other should be sufficient. Flibirigit (talk) 22:51, 30 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
That was my thought. I'd rather link the position since it's more likely that the reader already has a surface level understanding of ice hockey. Wheatzilopochtli (talk) 23:07, 30 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Or we could write ...is an Austrian ice hockey player... and place position in other sentence. Such approach is applied to a lot of other sports biograhies. – sbaio 03:42, 1 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with something like this. It's an absolute must that the position and sport one plays be linked in the lead, that is a standard in any sports biography, no matter what we assume of the reader.Echoedmyron (talk) 09:34, 1 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Position is linked in the infobox, so I don't even think we'd necessarily need to find another place to link in in the lead Wheatzilopochtli (talk) 02:54, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Either solution is fine with me. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:58, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I don’t see an issue with the current format and am actively opposed to any major change to it - separating the two into consecutive sentences (as is currently the case at Reinbacher) reads awkwardly and flows poorly. The SOB changes are overstated IMO, I’ve mostly seen it invoked for cases where nearly an entire sentence is linked to separate articles. The goal should be conciseness and readability over all else, and in addition, the sheer amount of work needed to change the sheer amount of articles that use the current format isn’t worth it, quiet simply put. The Kip (contribs) 11:35, 1 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
What I had in mind is ...is an Austrian professional ice hockey player for the Laval Rocket of the American Hockey League (AHL) while under contract to the Montreal Canadiens of the National Hockey League (NHL). so it does not really change. Position would have to be placed in some other sentence. – sbaio 16:29, 1 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Sbaio I was more expressing my disagreement with Nikkimaria's wording on David Reinbacher (which on a different issue, seems to have been removed by another Rubbaband Mang sock) - I personally find:
David Reinbacher is an Austrian professional ice hockey player. He is a defenceman...
to be extremely awkward, poorly-flowing wording. The Kip (contribs) 17:30, 1 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Also worth noting, for comparison with other wikiprojects - B2B bluelinks (or one unlinked) of sport-then-position (like ours) are also the standard in baseball pages (Aaron Judge, Cal Raleigh) and football pages (James Cook (running back), Sam Darnold). Basketball doesn't seem to do that (Luka Doncic, LeBron James), but IIRC positions are also more fluid/less specialized in basketball, so it's harder to define outright. The Kip (contribs) 17:42, 1 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Bill Russell has was an American professional basketball player who played center for ... Bob Feller has was an American baseball player who was a pitcher for ... —Bagumba (talk) 17:43, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Russell's could work for one-team players, but not as well for ones that played for multiple teams, and Feller's kinda comes off as a run-on sentence. The Kip (contribs) 17:54, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, but the thread started out focused just on presentation of the sport and position w.r.t. MOS. —Bagumba (talk) 19:01, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with everything The Kip has said. I've never had an issue with [sport] [position] in any GA or FA, and "player who is a [position]" is absolutely redundant. Were I still an English teacher, I'd put a red pen through "who is a" in a heartbeat. My understanding of SOB is that it's best to avoid split bluelinks where one specific one would suffice. — GhostRiver 19:51, 31 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Any of a more specific link, omitting one of the links, or separating the two is fine; just the side-by-side is an issue. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:47, 1 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Nikkimaria Not to come off as rude, but it’d be best to discontinue changing intros until we’ve reached some sort of consensus here. The Kip (contribs) 02:28, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Wheatzilopochtli: I don't see a consensus for your edits. Kante4 (talk) 15:14, 7 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I will refrain from changing it anywhere else. To be honest I had not been keeping up with the thread and I saw some edits being made so I assumed there had been consensus. My fault. Wheatzilopochtli (talk) 15:20, 7 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Rockland Nationals

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There is an editor who keeps adding copyrighted text to the Rockland Nationals article. (Assuming it's the same editor as before, they've also added copyrighted text to other articles, such as Ottawa Titans.) Any assistance in monitoring the article (and updating it) is welcome! isaacl (talk) 05:15, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Isaacl: I don't have the time or inclination to go diff-digging, but this may be related to WP:Sockpuppet investigations/Kaepertank due to the pattern of pages; the same IP was recently blocked at that SPI. Several of the accounts in the recent history of those articles are socks of that user. Cc some of the frequent SPI reporters @162 etc., Pemilligan, and Tom Danson:. Left guide (talk) 05:42, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I recall the previous discussion we had regarding this editor. The articles in question could benefit from more page watchers, and more people interested in updating the content to help forestall problematic edits from being made. (Unfortunately, I'm just not sufficiently interested in the subjects to significantly update the articles.) isaacl (talk) 06:28, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Isaacl: Yes, I remember that, when you previously flagged edits by this sockmaster at the baseball project. We both seem active at both project talk pages, and this user dabbles in both topic areas also. Requesting protection on frequent targets at WP:RFPPI may be a helpful measure; not typically as high of an evidence threshold there as SPI. Left guide (talk) 06:36, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
When I requested page protection for the Ottawa Titans article, I was told to warn the user and then report to the vandalism noticeboard or incidents' noticeboard if the problem continued. At the time, the edits were coming from multiple IP addresses so I spent time warning them all. I'm wary of making further requests, though, since it seems my personal standard for evidence of an issue doesn't match standard practice for those implementing page protection. (I appreciate, of course, that different responders might have different thresholds for acting.) isaacl (talk) 16:15, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
DJ Champion (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is giving me vibes of another sockpuppet of Kaepertank. Account created in 2022 and started editing just recently. This particular editor is also changing attendance figures. – sbaio 11:47, 10 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This pair of edits, where a change was made and then reverted, but the edit summary was changed to make it look like two separate, peer sections were edited, seems unusual (perhaps intended to pad edit count). isaacl (talk) 16:00, 10 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
[edit]

I think we should maintain a list of long-term abuse (LTA) or sockpuppet investigations (SPI) that regularly affect this project. I often forget the links to these pages, and it would help fight vandals. There are four I am aware of. Are there any more? Flibirigit (talk) 11:41, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

From time to time, WP:LTA/PTC and Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/ProTaylorCraft. Thankfully, they’re a hoaxster so pretty easy to catch. The Kip (contribs) 13:28, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a preferred place within Wikipedia:WikiProject Ice Hockey/Navigation where we could have such a list? Flibirigit (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Personally, I would prefer making any such list as low-profile as possible, in the interest of denying recognition. isaacl (talk) 17:13, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure that such a list is against WP:DENY when the LTA and SPI cases already exist. Is there a specific suggestion to maintain a lower profile list? Flibirigit (talk) 18:37, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, I don't think having a list is against denying recognition. As I mentioned, I just think it should be kept low-profile. Thus I would prefer not having it in the navigation sidebar. isaacl (talk) 22:09, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I think it could be pinned to this chat page. Are there other thoughts? Flibirigit (talk) 22:16, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
One possibility I was thinking of is the cleanup department page. A link on this talk page, or the project page itself, would be more easily discoverable by new editors, which has its pros and cons. isaacl (talk) 22:21, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Isaacl IMO, DENY works great for garden-variety trolls and vandals, but LTAs and frequent sockpuppeteers like those listed above ultimately become pervasive enough such that they can't simply be ignored/reverted. The Kip (contribs) 05:40, 6 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't say anything about ignoring such editors. Denying recognition is about minimizing the amount of cognitive effort spent on problem editors; it doesn't mean no time should be spent. isaacl (talk) 07:23, 6 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Utah Hockey Club etc.

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How many of these and subcategories should be renamed (speedily) to contain Mammoth instead of Hockey Club? Sammi Brie (she/her · t · c) 03:17, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

None, for the same reason we still have Category:Quebec Nordiques players and Category:Toronto St. Patricks seasons. Not all UHC players are Mammoth players (ex. Michael Kesselring), and not all Mammoth players are UHC players (ex. Vitek Vanecek). The Kip (contribs) 03:22, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Utah Hockey Club was a placeholder name for what became Utah Mammoth. They are not separate franchises, and for all intents and purposes (such as Wikipedia categories, in this case), they should be considered synonymous. 162 etc. (talk) 05:25, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
In fact, Category:Utah Hockey Club and related subcategories should be deleted as redundant. See Category:Utah Mammoth. 162 etc. (talk) 05:31, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Given the apparent redundancy, I think a merge of some sort may be merited. Left guide (talk) 05:41, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@162 etc. Category:Utah Hockey Club will still have the players and seasons categories under it - it's not redundant. Again, we still have Category:Toronto St. Patricks seasons and Category:Toronto Arenas players despite the St. Pats/Arenas being the modern-day Maple Leafs under a different name. At the very least, the players categories should remain separate - Connor Ingram did not play a game for the Mammoth, and Brandon Tanev won't have ever played a game for the Hockey Club. The Kip (contribs) 05:56, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Arenas/St. Pat's are not the same scenario. Utah Hockey Club was from day 1 a placeholder name. So something like 2024–25 Utah Hockey Club season can, and should be, categorized under Category:Utah Mammoth seasons. 162 etc. (talk) 06:02, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Placeholder or not, the Hockey Club and Mammoth are two different identities; Category:Washington Football Team seasons exists independently of Category:Washington Redskins seasons and Category:Washington Commanders seasons, despite a similar scenario. The Kip (contribs) 06:52, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not particularly interested in editing NFL content, but if I were, I'd support deleting Category:Washington Football Team too. 162 etc. (talk) 07:02, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with 162 etc. and Left guide on renaming the categories. For this situation, the use of placeholder branding due to an expedited launch process has no meaningful effect on how the members of the categories are associated with the base entity: the Utah NHL franchise. isaacl (talk) 16:12, 10 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
At the very least, we should maintain Category:Utah Hockey Club players; it's objectively true that Dakota Mermis and Michael Kesselring never played for the Mammoth, while Vitek Vanecek and Brandon Tanev won't have played for the Hockey Club. Take Paul Kariya, for instance; we have him in Category:Mighty Ducks of Anaheim players, but not in Category:Anaheim Ducks players. On that note, I'll go ahead and create the Mammoth player category, which seems not to exist yet. The Kip (contribs) 10:44, 11 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This comes down to semantics: does it serve readers best to categorize based on the underlying organization, which has not changed, or the team's moniker for a specific season? As a practical matter, who played in the inaugural Utah season is available from the corresponding season article. isaacl (talk) 01:20, 12 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I firmly disagree. We shouldn't be resorting to historical fictions that confuse readers in the name of "cleanup." The Kip (contribs) 04:03, 12 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I think readers expect that someone who played last season and this season with the Utah team has a two-year tenure with the team, rather than resetting everyone's tenure to one year. isaacl (talk) 05:51, 12 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I also think readers do not expect to be told that Michael Kesselring played for the Mammoth, nor that Brandon Tanev played for the Hockey Club.
Would also like to note that besides the Toronto and Anaheim categories mentioned above, we also have:
There has been a long history/apparent consensus that any name changes merit a new category for historical accuracy purposes, relocation or not. The Kip (contribs) 06:19, 12 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The Kip has now raised a plausible objection above, so this would need to go through WP:CFD for consensus rather than speedy re-naming. Left guide (talk) 03:38, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
There's one exception, the one I'm zoning in on, and that's Category:Utah Hockey Club announcers. I'm bringing that to CfD because neither member of the category only worked Utah games in 2024–25. Sammi Brie (she/her · t · c) 04:05, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Actually realized there's a second, and I've opened CfD nominations on both at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2025 October 9. Sammi Brie (she/her · t · c) 04:08, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Should all be under Utah Mammoth, as no re-location occurred between 2024-25 & 2025-26 seasons. Same should be done with Anaheim Ducks. GoodDay (talk) 04:13, 12 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

PWHL Draft & NHL entry draft

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Perhaps we need consistency, for PWHL & NHL draft titles? Either we upper case or lower case. GoodDay (talk) 16:01, 12 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Both should be lowercase. Conyo14 (talk) 16:11, 12 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Much as I hate to say it given that it’s a relic from a now-sitebanned editor’s tendentiousness, consensus was to lowercase and I don’t think that’s changed. The Kip (contribs) 16:15, 12 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Well: the battering from the MOS Mafia bludgeoned the discussion, anyway, but a good bit of wind was taken out of their sails in that ANI explosion. It's high time we reversed the nonsense and started calling things what the leagues use as proper names, and revert to NHL Entry Draft. Ravenswing 16:20, 12 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Consensus has not changed. It is not time to disrupt Wikipedia by changing it without an RFC. Flibirigit (talk) 17:14, 12 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
It disrupted the hell out of Wikipedia to change it in the first place, by that token, and their antics weren't restricted to this project; I don't know if you followed the eventual ANI thread (I'm a regular at the drama board), but I haven't seen such widespread palpable rage against a clique since the ARS was finally brought to heel, and the fallout eventually saw two of them indeffed and a third topic-banned from capitalization disputes. The degree to which "consensus has not changed" is that it hasn't actually been tested. Time to test that. Ravenswing 18:54, 12 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Only one of them was indeffed entirely (Dicklyon), the other two were TBANned from capitalization - otherwise, I mostly agree. The Kip (contribs) 19:35, 12 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Seems like wasting time when we are still climbing hockey mountain. Flibirigit (talk) 00:14, 13 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think we need to necessarily worry about new things being lowercased. Just in this specific example, PWHL Draft -> PWHL draft is easier. Conyo14 (talk) 00:42, 13 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I had changed it to lowercase to match NHL but eventually I changed it back. The league and all the sources use uppercase; I think it should stay uppercase. Wheatzilopochtli (talk) 03:20, 13 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oh I just did some research on it too. It appears sources do capitalize it. A rarity, but we should go by what the sources do. Conyo14 (talk) 16:18, 13 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I am vehemently against re-capitalizing everything. Llammakey (talk) 12:41, 13 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think anyone's in favor of re-capitalizing "everything." Nor is anyone proposing re-capitalizing "everything." I'm in favor of, as per COMMONNAME, capitalizing proper names. Ravenswing 19:44, 13 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I meant everything that had been de-capitalized. Pretty much everything you are proposing. Llammakey (talk) 11:28, 14 October 2025 (UTC) 11:27, 14 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I've no objections to uppercasing "NHL Entry Draft" & the related pages. GoodDay (talk) 19:55, 13 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

We probably would need an RM to reverse that decision. Conyo14 (talk) 20:07, 13 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, a formal request would be required, but I think we have more important tasks at hand. Flibirigit (talk) 21:11, 13 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
We certainly do. An informal WikiProject discussion can't be used to reverse a previous RM consensus; it requires a new RM. Left guide (talk) 21:53, 13 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, an RM would be the next step. GoodDay (talk) 19:12, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Featured article review for Calgary Hitmen

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I have nominated Calgary Hitmen for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" in regards to the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Hog Farm Talk 00:31, 19 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Diacritics, again

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I've noticed @Colonies Chris: has been (unevenly) unhiding diacritics on players names on some NHL team season pages. Perhaps he's unaware of WP:NCIH, which recommends not doing that. GoodDay (talk) 15:37, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Could you give an example page that's been affected? Conyo14 (talk) 16:02, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I've undone the changes, see 1982–83 Toronto Maple Leafs season & 1987–88 Toronto Maple Leafs season for examples. GoodDay (talk) 16:03, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Given the NHL's recent embracing of diacritics, I'd be open to revisiting NCIH if there hasn't been a recent discussion on it Wheatzilopochtli (talk) 17:22, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I feel this would be a site-wide decision for Wikipedia, not just sports. Flibirigit (talk) 17:25, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
As I discussed in 2023, there is an English Wikipedia project-wide discussion to be had on how to balance common usage versus determining if a person has decided on a specific anglicization of their name. But the specific guidance under Wikipedia:Naming conventions (ice hockey) is within the scope of this WikiProject. We can decide whether or not the current ice hockey-specific guidance continues to be suitable, given the current usage of names by the various hockey leagues. isaacl (talk) 17:35, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Problem with that? You'd have to start dividing up non-player pages, i.e. before & after NHL began putting diacritics on sweaters. GoodDay (talk) 17:31, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
NCIH is a guideline, not part of the MOS. The MOS supersedes any guideline. At WP:MILHIST, the project came down hard on a guideline which contradicted the MOS, namely, GNG. Always defer to the MOS. The MOS says diacritics are acceptable as long as they are found in WP:RS. If they are not, then one must use the common name. Llammakey (talk) 17:39, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
As I discussed previously, the problem is that there is no English Wikipedia project-wide guidance on what constitutes a reliable source for someone's name. Some people feel by default, if a person has not in some way made it clear that they have anglicized their name, sources using an anglicized version are not reliable with respect to the spelling of the name. The ice hockey guidance is just a stop gap approach. For better or worse, the appearance of names on league uniforms and official roster lists influences common usage. isaacl (talk) 17:48, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Right, but all I'm saying is that according to the MOS, diacritics are acceptable if there is a source supporting it. Blanket removal of diacritics on North American pages is not allowable per the MOS. The guideline is in breach of the MOS. Llammakey (talk) 18:34, 20 October 2025 (UTC) 18:33, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
There are sources that use and don't use diacritics, so no consensus. Conyo14 (talk) 18:39, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly, which is why you default to the MOS. Which says they are allowed. Llammakey (talk) 19:56, 21 October 2025 (UTC) 11:50, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Again, where would you divide the line. At (for example) Pittsburgh Penguins, we wouldn't show diacritics in Jagr's name. Why? Because he didn't use them, when he played for the Penguins & sources 'then', didn't either. GoodDay (talk) 18:41, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
There is no line. If there is a WP:RS that says they have diacritics in their name, the MOS says you can use that name. The guideline that states North American articles are somehow special goes against the MOS and should be deprecated and ignored. Llammakey (talk) 11:50, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The part of the MOS that goes against COMMONNAME should be deprecated and ignored. If we're doing that. Ravenswing 19:31, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@GoodDay: Jágr did use diacritics, because that is his surname. The only problem here is that Americans and probably Canadians did not bother to use diacritics and just butchered many players' names. – sbaio 02:40, 22 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Canadians use diacritics (the French Canadians). It is the Americans who do not. Llammakey (talk) 11:34, 22 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
When he played in the NHL, there were no diacritics on his sweater name or in sports coverage. GoodDay (talk) 03:06, 22 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The guidance says Wikipedia normally retains these special characters, except where there is a well-established English spelling that replaces them with English standard letters. The problem is that editors disagree on what is a well-established English spelling. Should it matter if typographical limitations was the reason a certain spelling became well-established? Nonetheless, as I said two years ago, I think the desire for the current ice hockey-specific guidance has waned, and it's reasonable to re-examine it. isaacl (talk) 04:34, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The guideline should be deprecated. It goes against the MOS. Llammakey (talk) 11:50, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Does that include player page titles, too? GoodDay (talk) 19:51, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
MOS:DIACRITICS says:

Use of diacritics is determined on a topic-by-topic basis; a small group of editors cannot prohibit or require the use of diacritics within a given class of articles.

—Bagumba (talk) 19:06, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
That works both ways, of course; a small group of editors cannot require their use. Ravenswing 19:30, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
WP:STRAWMAN - The quoted text already states that. You are now just trying to incite. Please add constructive contributions. Llammakey (talk) 19:46, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
There are many player bios pages, whose titles are currently against WP:COMMONNAME. You see, the current arrangement is a compromise between non-player & player North American pages. GoodDay (talk) 19:49, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
According the page Bagumba linked, proper names can have diacritics. Llammakey (talk) 19:55, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Currently, many of them with diacritics, are going against WP:COMMONNAME. GoodDay (talk) 19:58, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
And as WP:COMMONNAME is written, yes you are correct. it generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable, English-language sources) and The choice between anglicized and local spellings should follow English-language usage and For a non-English name, phrase, or word, adopt the spelling most commonly used in English-language reliable sources, including but not limited to those already cited in the article, so yes, those players who like Teemu Selanne, should have their names spelled without the diacritics due to a plethora of independent English-language sources using that spelling, with a redirect. Keeping in mind that the NHL or any team site is not considered independent of the subject matter. Llammakey (talk) 20:11, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Just an observation regarding the NHL and teams—they’re not really consistent, either. At the Caps game last night, I couldn’t help but noticing that while Martin Fehervary has diacritics on his sweater, when they show his name on the videoboard they omit them. Kind of weird inconsistency as they update the on-screen graphics every offseason. 1995hoo (talk) 11:41, 22 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I believe my aforementioned reverts were correct. The players didn't use diacritics on their sweaters during that time period & sources didn't either. We shouldn't allow such retro changes to the past. GoodDay (talk) 15:52, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

As currently constituted, yes your reverts were correct. I just believe the NCIH should be deprecated, and/or reworded to state that North American articles have a preference for names without diacritics, as they represent common usage. Llammakey (talk) 19:50, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
NCIH already sets the latter forth. Shall I now cast aspersions at you for "trying to incite?" Please add constructive contributions, rather than shrill denunciations of anyone who disagrees with you. Ravenswing 11:40, 22 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
WP:VEXBYSTERANG might apply here. There are several heated comments in this string. Flibirigit (talk) 16:03, 22 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Spengler Cup in International?

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Hey folks, curious if the Spengler Cup stats are worthy for inclusion. I'm currently working on Draft:Colten Ellis and realized he played in the Spengler Cup last year. Wondering if it's worth adding his stats or just keeping it to WJC U18. Cheers, Kline • talk • contribs 21:59, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

As per Wikipedia:WikiProject Ice Hockey/Player pages format, only world championships (junior or senior) and the Olympics are included. Flibirigit (talk) 22:28, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Flibirigit Thanks.. looks like another clean up task to be done, since I ended up looking at other players who played in the Spengler having their stats included. Cheers, Kline • talk • contribs 22:44, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Flibirigit There seemed to be an unofficial consensus to include the 4 Nations as well, given the teams were selected by their national governing bodies. The Kip (contribs) 23:30, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

NYT for your enjoyment

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The 24 Wikipedia pages for NHL rivalries, ranked by their single wildest passage Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:17, 22 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

None of these are "good" articles, but they exist for reasons haha. Conyo14 (talk) 17:28, 22 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Hopefully all of those statements are verified and not original research. Maybe someone with NYT/Athletic access can check? Left guide (talk) 18:31, 22 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

List of NHL players with 500 goals

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Should we get List of NHL players with 500 goals protected till the end of the season so that IPs can't update it every time Ovechkin scores? Thoughts? Masterhatch (talk) 03:04, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It's been very active the past 4 days. I'd say it's fine to semi-protect. Conyo14 (talk) 03:24, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know if any admins are willing to protect for that reason, but I suppose it doesn't hurt to ask. One option that might help is that if there is consensus here to do so, I'd be willing to create an article edit notice template on the page like the one at {{Editnotices/Page/List of NHL statistical leaders}}. Left guide (talk) 06:39, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

NHL team seasons templates

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For example:
at Template:Boston Bruins seasons, should were italicize the 2025-26 season entry, as it's in progress? or remove it entirely. GoodDay (talk) 21:50, 26 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The longstanding practice was to italicize current season, but I am not sure if that is done anymore. – sbaio 06:13, 27 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I've completed the task. GoodDay (talk) 22:01, 27 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion at Talk:Charles M. Schulz § GA/FA plans

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 You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Charles M. Schulz § GA/FA plans, which is within the scope of this WikiProject. sjones23 (talk - contributions) 22:00, 27 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

List of NHL rivalries addition

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@Freekbob30 has consistently been adding Blues-Stars as a rivalry despite not linking any citations that prove it to be so. I've already reverted them twice and talked on their page about it, but they are not responding at all. Can anyone advise on next steps? Is WP:AN3 required here? Conyo14 (talk) 19:23, 2 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Jack Xhekaj's birthplace.

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Why are we refraining from using Serbia as Arber Xhekaj's father's birthplace. Kosovo is not a sovereign state. It's a part of Serbia. GoodDay (talk) 14:33, 5 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Because the sources associated with that statement say "Kosovo"? Conyo14 (talk) 15:04, 5 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Even so, it doesn't change the fact that it's a part of Serbia. Unless you're treating Kosovo, like Manitoba or Nevada. GoodDay (talk) 15:16, 5 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Well, Kosovo is recognized by 109 countries. They also participate in European competitions, like football, basketball, handball and so on, so it's different... Kante4 (talk) 15:45, 5 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Is there a relevant MOS? I feel like a topic as hot button as this is likely to have a guideline. Wheatzilopochtli (talk) 15:55, 5 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Yes; the relevant MOS would have the birthplace as the extant polity at the time of birth. Kosovo's declaration of independence was well after Jack Xhekaj's birth, so the birthplace should be given not as "Serbia," but rightly as Yugoslavia. Come to that, the mother shouldn't be listed in the "Czech Republic," but as being born in Czechoslovakia. Ravenswing 17:12, 5 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I concur, the birth countries should be used. GoodDay (talk) 17:14, 5 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'm fine with that too, but would prefer sources that state that. Conyo14 (talk) 17:33, 5 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Kosovo vs Serbia is getting into questions of politics that I'm uncomfortable talking about in this setting, but regardless, as Ravenswing says it should be the country at the time of birth; in this case, Yugoslavia. The Kip (contribs) 18:06, 5 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Is it necessary to mention the country at all? The city could be sufficient. Flibirigit (talk) 18:17, 5 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I would say yes, given we don't expect the average user to know where Drenas is. The Kip (contribs) 18:32, 5 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Hell, I wouldn't expect the informed user to have the faintest idea where Drenas is. Ravenswing 03:15, 6 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Death cause at Infobox ice hockey biography

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Just want to let everyone know that a | death_cause = parameter was added to Template:Infobox ice hockey biography in 27 September 2025. Looks like this has not been discussed anywhere and was added without consensus. – sbaio 08:19, 8 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Remove that. It's wildly unnecessary for even regular bios. Conyo14 (talk) 14:44, 8 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
It's been self-reverted by the editor who added it in response to an edit request I made on the template talk page on behalf of Conyo14. Left guide (talk) 15:04, 8 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I noticed it was used for hockey players who died in action during a World War. In that case it seemed appropriate, and there are very few players to whom it applied. Flibirigit (talk) 15:34, 8 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed deletion of Shinnik Bobruisk

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Notice

The article Shinnik Bobruisk has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Unsourced for 14 years, and tagged as such for 4 years. Defunct hockey club.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Bearian (talk) 15:30, 8 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Bearian: I've redirected it to the league article where it's mentioned as an alternative to deletion per WP:ATD-R. Please consider doing this on other sports team articles you deem non-notable where possible, thanks. Left guide (talk) 22:11, 8 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you! Bearian (talk) 22:14, 8 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Hockey color and other

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Notifying everyone that an editor recreated Template:Hockey color, Template:Hockey color cell and Template:Hockey color cell2 that were previously deleted per Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2020 November 30#Template:Ice hockey color cell. All of them were previously discussed at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ice Hockey/Archive76#New wiki-code templates for all 32 NHL ice hockey teams. – sbaio 11:09, 10 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It was me. I'm "an editor."
Hi folks, I'm Mike Vitale. I've been editing WP since 2007, but not consistently. However, I have been consistently editing hockey-related pages since sometime around 2022 (I'm not going to go do the research to figure out exactly when it was, but it was sometime around there.) Most (but not all) of my hockey-related edits are around women's hockey. Part of the reason I don't often edit around the men's game is because there are FAR more people who will update those pages, and I'm filling a need in editing pages for the women's side of the sport, which I feel is underrepresented. I have brought two women's hockey lists to FL-status, List of Olympic women's ice hockey players for the United States and List of Minnesota Golden Gophers women's ice hockey seasons. I'm not looking for accolades; I'm just providing some background and noting that I'm not just someone "passing through" making edits which haven't been thought through. I also created the {{Game-won}} and related templates, which are now being used on all current NHL season pages (last I looked).
I have a background as a software developer, and that's the mindset that I take when editing Wikipedia. In this particular instance, it's been around "How can I make it easier for myself and others to use the correct colors in the correct order when editing?" In software, we would create a function to accomplish that. That's how I view templates and modules. And while I don't really know Lua, I'm getting much better at editing templates on WP.
So...Even though I'm reasonably meticulous when I edit pages, I still make mistakes. Take, for example this old revision of the 2025–26 Minnesota Frost season. Looking at the "Preseason" and "Regular season" schedules, there are two different purple colors employed, and the purple is on the top border during preseason, and on the bottom during the regular season. (I'm not going to comb through history to figure out if I actually created that problem; I'm just going to assume it was me.)
My solution to this problem was to employ usages of the {{Hockey color}} template, which I boldly created a few months ago. As noted above, I've been editing hockey pages since around 2022, so I therefore wasn't active in the ice hockey section of WP for the November 30, 2020 TfD discussion.
I strongly prefer having a reusable way to employ correct and standard colors for hockey teams, and these templates accomplish that. I was scratching my own itch in (re-)creating the templates, which I did without knowing their history. Now that I know their history, my opinion remains unchanged -- these templates allow standard usage of team's colors. --MikeVitale 13:22, 10 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The color coding is completely unnecessary. We need less decoration, not more. Flibirigit (talk) 13:57, 10 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Well, this is pretty much a moot point now. The templates have been deleted even though I contested their deletion. So much for trying to improve things in WP:HOCKEY. --MikeVitale 17:18, 10 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
As I mentioned in the linked discussion in the archives of this talk page, I don't have an issue with having the colours centralized so their current use will be consistent. (Eliminating existing uses of colour is a separate issue.) Module:Sports color/ice hockey is as good a place as any to store this. (I don't always agree with the validity of the sources used by one of the editors who frequently updates team colours, but the changes are generally still a net positive: picking up real branding changes, while sometimes shifting the exact shade of colour used, which is typically an approximation anyway compared with the appearance on physical objects like jerseys, for various reasons.) I don't know how the deleted template was implemented, but I'm guessing it accessed the info from there? isaacl (talk) 18:19, 10 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. The templates were substantially similar to any of the other "... color", "... color cell", and "... color cell2" templates that exist for other sports listed in {{Sports color templates}}. --MikeVitale 18:30, 10 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Looking at {{Basketball color cell}}, it generates CSS style rules to set the background and text colors. Did the templates you created do this, or did it generate style rules to generate colour borders? isaacl (talk) 18:53, 10 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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